If you are a victim of the gem scam and would like to tell your story in order to help warn others or to let people know tactics for getting their money back, please type it in below and we'll be happy to publish it. If you were scammed in a way that was noticeably different from the average experience, we're especially interested in hearing about it.
Thanks to everyone who has submitted their experiences.
Thanks to Mayura:
Please stay away from LAELA LAPIDARY 589 Prasunmain Road, Watborwornniwate Pranak in Bangkok Thailand. They had a organized group of criminals approach my husband and I outside of Grand Palace. It started with a "university" professor telling us to see all the different sightseeing places, got us a tuktuk -thought my husband should buy me a Thai Ruby to bring us good luck and do so from Leela's. We were taken to the Golden Mount where a "Thai airways pilot" told us about Leela among other lies like Tiffanys and Bulgaris buy from there. The tuktuk took us to Laela where the high pressured sales lady sold us a fake ruby ring for BHT 35,600 (US ~$900). PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THIS CRIME AND LAELA's - please learn from my lesson
Thanks to MB:
My self and two friend fall into this trap in 1990 - it is long time a go BUT - after we learn that it was all a scam we came back from Austrail (were they shipped the stoned to as we headed this way) we came back from Austrail to Bangkok and forced ourself into the shop - after getting into a srtong argument we told the guys we will stend near the shop for a week and telling everyone about the business - we got all our money back it was 2500$ (which we paid all 3 of us together). Thinking back we probably were crazy to do all that but we finally got what we paid in full. In any case the experiance is with me until today and can tell you that my holiday to Thailand was not so nice beacuse of this scam. Guys, be carefull - do not spend money on what you do not understand. There is not easy money only hard work - do not be naive (I was 24 at that time, now I am 37 and since then did not fall in any business scam).
Thanks to Anna:
well, my story happened in mid-feb 2005. There were 3 of us, myself and 2 of my male friends, and it was our last day in Thailand and we wanted to see a few sights jsut for some photos. So we asked our hotel concierge for any suggestions and he suggested we go to Wat Pho, a temple.
So we went there, and were stopped by a local guy just outside the front, and he told us we couldn't go in becuase of our thongs, skirt, singlets and shorts, as well as there were monks praying because it was the last day of Chinese New Year. So he asked us what we were doing, and suggested a few places to go to visit, marking them on our tourist map we had. The places that he marked were not marked on the map, which we should have realised was a bit weird. He then hailed down a tuktuk for us, and told us we would only need to pay 30BAHT for the whole afternoon, and the driver would wait on us. So naturally we thought that was awesome, cos usually we have been getting ripped off about 100BAHT for a one way trip.
So we were taken to a temple, where we again were stopped by another local, and he told us that monks were praying and would have to wait around 20 minutes. So he striked up a conversation with us, about where we're from, what we're doing. And he then mentioned the Export Centre where we are able to buy jewelry tax free, and able to take it home and sell for 195% profit. As well as this, an American tourist came and pretended he was wanting to go inside the temple as well, and overheard us talking about this. He joined in the conversation, and recommended we go and buy something there, saying it will cover our expenses on this trip, and that he does it everyyear. He even gave us his email and contact number, making friends with one of my male friends, and kept saying we should buy something and split it between us.
So becuase of that, we really didnt think it was a scam, cos of the American. Added a nice touch to the situation.
So we went to the export centre, and the moment we stepped in, the place looked dodge. The salespeople there just didnt look professional, there were local ppl inside talking to out the back, and we also noticed dodgy photocopied paper signs stuck around the walls, which just didnt seem right for a jewelry store.
So we left, and were pretty convinced that it was all a scam. So we were then taken to another temple, which was really small and only had a tiny little prayer room we would look at. While we were there we noticed a man just hanging around, quite well dressed, looked respectable, and seemed to be watching the place for some reason. So we decided to ask him about the export centre, just to see if he knew of it. We figured it couldnt be a scam if we approached him, becuase he did nothing to urge us to go. So we asked him about it, and he said of course. He claimed that he does it every year to support his family, that thai students do this all the time to pay for their education, and he also had his documentation to show us. Mind you, the other 2 men at the other temple had theirs to show us as well. How convenient! Anyway after all that, my friends were quite convinced it wasnt a scam, so we went back and my friend bought a ring worth around AUD$400.
We were then taken to a tailor, where we were approached by the shopkeeper that it was tje last day of their CNY sale with 50% off all suits. So one of my friends purchased one, paying only a deposit upfront. The salesman wasnt really too happy about this but eventually allowed this. The suit was sent to our hotel the next morning where he paid the remainder of the price.
Anyway later on that night, we went out to KhaoSan rd where we met a nice backpacker, and we asked him to tell some funny stories of his stay here. He just so happened to tell us a funny sotry that 3 months ago he went to visit Wat Pho, and was approached by a local guy that told him to go to these other places, which included a few temples, a jewelry store, and ended up at a tailor.
My friend has not been able to sell the ring so far. =[
Thanks to Mat:
I'd just like to say that if you have any suspicions then you should walk away at an early stage. I have twice been targeted by these scammers, and both times I was able to walk away without buying anything.
I moved to Bangkok in October 2004. A few weeks after I arrived, I was walking up my soi towards Thanon Silom (one of the main shopping/business areas). I was intending to take the SkyTrain to the MBK shopping mall. A tuk-tuk driver slowed down beside me and asked where I was going. I told him. He explained that the SkyTrain fair would be around 40 baht (true) and that he would only charge 20 baht. I said no thanks and kept walking. He kept following and asking. I said no again and kept walking. He kept following, and jokiing asked again, smiling. I though, what the hell I might as well save some money and he seems friendly. So I got in.
He started driving along Thanon Silom, talking in broken English about Manchester United (the usual, in other words). After a few minutes, he pulled over and explained that, if we take a detour to a gem shop, he will be given free fuel coupons and I only need to browse for 5 minutes then we'd continue to MBK.
I said I didn't want to go on any detour, just to MBK like he'd originally said. He kept asking. I said I was late for an appointment with someone at MBK (not true, but a good excuse) and had to get there soon. He said that by only charging 20 baht he was doing me a favour, so I should do him a favour too. I kept saying I didn't have time and wouldn't go.
So he flagged down another passing tuk-tuk, and asked him to take me to MBK. I left the 1st one, who didn't ask for the 20 baht from me, and took the other one. He charged me 50 baht when we got to MBK. (I know we took an extra-long route, down a few dodgy-looking sois. We didn't stop there or meet anyone else, though I was very worried that we would.)
The seond time was this morning (1st February 2005). I was standing at the bottom of the BTS steps, opposite MBK, taking photos of the traffic to send to my family in the UK. Specifically, I was waiting for tuk-tuks to drive past so I could photograph them. There was one tuk-tuk waiting on the opposite side of the road, not going anywhere.
A well-dressed, young/middle-aged woman approached me, asking why I was taking photos. She seemed genuine. I told her I was photographing Bangkok for my family. She talked in good English about her family and asked me if I was taking any souveniers back to the UK. She recommended that I go to Jim Thompson's silk shop, which I took to be a good sign (why would scammers recommend other people's shops?). Then it dawned on me, when she suggested I buy some gems for my family. She said she knew a place called Siam Export Center with a 40 per cent sale that morning. She said I could get a tuk-tuk from here, and she wrote the name of the place on my newspaper.
She must have signalled to the tuk-tuk waiting on the opposite side of the road, because he suddenly pulled over next to us. She suggested I go with him. I said I couldn't go now as I had to go somewhere else, but would go to this Export Center later (I had no intention of doing this). She got worried, and kept asking where I was going, so I quickly walked away.
I have also been approached by people around Siam Square, making polite conversation but seeming a bit too friendly to be genuine. In these cases, I just walked away immediately.
Thai people are usually happy-go-lucky and friendly, though they are also quite reserved. If someone approaches you, they are not to be trusted. This sounds like a generalisation but it's not. Simply, don't believe what people tell you if they approach you first.
If you flag down a taxi or tuk-tuk, or if you stop someone and ask directions, etc, they will usually be as helpful as they can. But if someone approaches you they are probably con-artists.
I would also suggest that it's safer not to use tuk- tuks at all. Taxis are around the same price, and more comfortable, and safer. If you are with a Thai person you know (eg, when I am travelling with my Thai partner) then using a tuk-tuk should be fine, but tourist groups and especially individual tourists really should avoid tuk-tuks.
Thanks to Orchid from Japan:
When I arrived near Sao Ching Cha, I decided to go to Grand Palace, then I asked a man, who was just standing near me with his friend, how to go there. At first I did not know he was a driver. He said "Grand Palace is not open at the moment, so I offer you a lift only 20B for 1 or 2 hours."It sounded fishy to me, because I had read such trouble on the web, so I asked him why it was so cheap. He said he could get ESSO coupen. At that time I did not understand what he meant. He said "I will take you to some temples and silk shop and jewellery shop." I insisted I would not go to such shops, but he said "you don't have to buy it. It is up to you." Then he circled where to go in my map.
First we went to to the temple where there are standing, sitting and big belly budda. I walked around, then a man started to talk to me. I thought it was a good idea to ask him whether I can trust Tuk Tuk driver. He said "Are you going to the silk shop? (seeing my map) I bought a suits this morning because today is the last day of big discount. I have a members card.(showing me a card) With this card I can buy everything 20% off." After the driver took me to the silk shop. I did not buy any. The name was V-something. Maybe Venus??
Next, he took me to the temple. It was closed. I met an American man who was travelling in Thailand and talked to me. I do not think he was one of culprits, but he said today was the last day of good offer, so Tuk Tuk is very cheap. At first I was very suspicious to a driver. But I became to believe "Today is holiday, so some temples close in the morning or evening! Today is the special day because of Royal Family Day!"
Next, he took me to another temple. There was a huge budda, 40M. I wanted to make sure whether what the driver said was true or not, so I was listening to conversation between a Thailand man and an American couple. He said today is special day, so some temples open, some are not.
Then we headed for a jewellery shop. I do not remember the name. It was a quite small shop. I did not buy any. After that we went to the Chinese temple. When I entered inside, a woman was praying and taught me how to pray and left there. In few minutes, when I was about to leave there she came back with a man. He tried me to stay there, then conversation began. When I said I was Japanese, he started speaking Japanese fluently. I can speak English to some extent, so at first I talked to him in English. He said "My mother is from Thai, father is Japanese and lives in Tokyo." I asked him why the driver could get ESSO coupen or whether today is holiday. He taught the system. It was like that.
Today is the last special offer day. If Tuk Tuk drivers take tourists juwellely shop, they can get ESSO coupen from the government, because the government want tourists to buy more jewellery with reasonable price. The government levys 195% tax on jewellery, but until today you can get jewellery without tax. He have bought a jewel about 300,000 yen then went to Japan to sell it to where the jewellery shop introduced to him. He sold it for 600,000 yen. His aunt bought a lot of jewellery during special offer, then went to Europe to sell them. She went well. He asked me whether I watched this commertial on TV. He said I could trust the driver. Nobody has no intention of cheating me.
I trusted what he said completely, because I did not think Japanese did not cheat Japanese.
After that, we went to the jewellery shop, UNIVERSAL GEMS & JEWELRY EXPORT CO., LTD. At first I was not interested in jewellery, but I completed believed that the government was running. In the shop, a Thai woman was buying a set of jewel and said to me "This is the second time I have bought jewel at this shop. When I bought the jewel last time I went to Switzerland to sell it and earn a lot of money." She was filling in the documents. When I decided which jewel I buy, a woman and a driver took me to ATM. I needed 115,000B, but I could withdraw 90,000B. It was limitation. The woman was a bit nervous. Then we went back to the shop, I paid money and filled in the documents. A man who are charged of the shop said to me, "We will send you your jewel by EMS. When you receive it, the shop you choose will contact you when I can sell it to the shop. You can get 180,000B worth yen." Unfortunately I do not have EMS sending copy.
Next, I left the shop with a man who was a driver. The car was Honda, White, Sedan car. He took me to a temples and shopping centre. He told me he was going to Germany to work with German boss for BMW. He showed me the boss's photo. Then we went to the express way and went to the restaurant which the jewellely shop had contracted with. He took me to the airport. Then I asked him to tell me his e-mail address and his address. He started to write them but he said he could not. I thought Thai people cannot spell well because they write Thai language we cannot read and write. At the airport I took his photo.
I am in panic now. I cannot get enough sleep and lost a lot of weight. I hope next victim never appear.
Thanks to Mandy from Hong Kong:
Unfortunately, I have just been scammed and realized it after reading your website. I just can't believe how sophisticating the organized crime is...to help other travellers not fall prey to the scum, here's my story to share.
I was walking around and wanted to go the weekend market, but tuk tuk driver convinced me that the market is quite far and offer me to take me around to temples for 30 baht...and alright there i went to this big belly budda chinese temple. where a respectable looking thai spoke fluent english approached me... asked where i'm from, and said that he works in bangkok embassy in hong kong. because i thought we came from same place, this is why he are very nice to me, tell me where i should go. and of course, he mentioned about the gem trade. before i left, the thai man offer to take me out for dinner, and meet with me at 6pm...and when we both back in hk, he'll take me to tsiu sa tsi, and he can even named a reputable jeweller in hk, he also told me he's leaving on the same flight but hinting he's fying first class.
So I went to the store and the mangaer spoke to me... but because a set of gem is expensive around 170,000 baht, i don't have the money and thought the place was dodgy. the manager told me this is the last of the 7 days sales which opens to public, and the store will close at 1.30pm. i left and tuk tuk took me to another temple.
In that temple, two men approached me, one english speaking thai, and an AMERICAN man who claim he works in the one of the listed tech company. they are friends and we were just chatting. then i started to ask them about the trade and disgustingly, the white man claimed that he has already done it for 3 times. it is very safe and he have the company sent it back to the states. and the thai person confirms me it's legit and they have both done it....makes me think it's a fool not to participate in it...so i look at their watch and there's still 1/2 hour to go, so i quickly went back...thanx to the AMERICAN, if it wasn't him, i could have escaped the ill episode
I was going to max out my card to get the cheapest set, so they took me to ATM and gold shop. Luckily, both cards has limit and my visa refused the transaction, so i was able to draw 20,000 baht from the bank. of course the lady who accompanied me try to calm my dissonance.
So with that money, I bought 2 small sapphire and they convinced me to mail it thru them, I was very skeptical but was so tired after a 2 hours traffic jam, so I just let them. and later, I ask tuk tuk to take me back to Kao San rd but he convince me to go to siam centre, which i did...and i thought he will wait for me. after my shopping, i wait for the driver for 1/2 hour, but he didn't show up, felt very sorry that i've used his service for 5 hours but have not pay him....
So I went back and really met the guy on kao san, i thought he's just lonely and wanted some companion so had a drink and let him bring me around for dinner, drinks. The dinner cost me 2500 baht and we shared the cost, we only have a plate of prawn and tum yum soup and couple of beer and bottle of rum, it's ridiculos to cost so much, but i really don't know the price and since he's spliting the cost and so i didn't suspect.
Later took me to a bar where i have shrimp fishing, had fun and another hostess club.. he offered to pay for both places and at the end he asked if i would like to come back to his, and i said no. Later he asked one of the hostess to put me on a cab.
During the drinks, he flaunted how connected he is and, that he has some humble amount of money but he wants to make more, he would like to do furniture trading and being very nice and say if in the future, he will help me out if he find anything that are suitable for me to help. listening to his soulful drunken talk, i lay low of my guard, and he offers to take me out tomorrow to pattaya. he also said if i don't make enough money from gem trade, he can bring me to the headquarter where i can use my card. gave me his number and ask me to call him the next day for a meet up. and reminded me to meet up with him in hk to sell the gem....
The next day,i didn't call, cuz' of personal matters, and couple of days later, went back to hk and did recieve my package. I have not yet checked the price of the gem but i don't think i even have to now...
Thanks to Matt from Washington, USA:
After returning home from a week in Thailand, I now learn that one of my experiences in Bangkok was part of an elaborate scam. Luckily, all that was involved was about USD $10-15 or so. We were pressed for time to catch a flight to Phuket so we didn't have much time to fall into this trap, but we did fall somewhat.
Since I am a caucasian male, I couldn't pull off passing for a native in Bangkok, so I was spotted as a target from a mile away wearing a Mets baseball cap and carrying a small backpack.
My friend Jennifer and I were approached outside of the gates of the Palace by a Thai man wearing a shirt and tie. Since we both were wearing shorts, he told us that we wouldn't be able to enter the palace grounds unless we had pants on -- but it didn't matter because today the palace was closed... the one day the palace closes for a Monk's festival.
He introduced himself as the Manager of the Palace - to which we just laughed and said "Whatever". We didn't know who he was or what he wanted, but we knew that the real Manager wouldn't be outside dressed in long sleeve shirt and tie on a day when it was near 100 degrees, wandering around chatting with tourists.
Instead of seeing the Grand Palace, he said we should go to see another temple nearby or up the street. I don't recall the name of the temple, but he said it would just be 50 baht (a bit more than USD $1) by tuk-tuk to get there. He flagged a driver down who was waiting in what appeared to be a tuk-tuk queue and gave him instructions in Thai, since he allegedly didn't understand English. This "Manager" of the Palace then told us that not only would we see a nice temple, but we'd be near a Government jewelry shop where we could purchase jewelry as part of a Government promotion that was only taking place that day.
Even though the "Manager" was a bit shady, we figured at least it would be a ride in a tuk-tuk through Bangkok and we'd get to see city life mid-day -- worst case, we could jump out of the tuk-tuk if there was trouble.
After a fairly nice ride (about 10-15 minutes), we arrived at a temple... it was next to a school where Thai students were outside playing ball. The grounds of the Temple were nice and we saw monks praying and setting up chairs for something, maybe a festival? This added nicely to the story but we still kinda wondered about the weird "Manager".
Since we were pressed for time, we went back to the tuk-tuk and waited for our driver, who seemed to disappear somewhere. While waiting, another Thai guy approached us and asked us all the typical tourist questions... and asked where our driver was because he wanted to "move his car". He claimed to have studied in the USA on a particular exchange program (AFS) in New Jersey and loved America... blah blah. Then of course, he told us about this special Jewelry sale. It seemed like everyone we talked to knew about this special sale, but we didn't really question it since we weren't going to be making any major purchases. The tuk-tuk driver came back and this former exchange student told him in Thai to take us to that jewelry story - or it appeared as if he was saying something like that.
When the tuk-tuk pulled away, we looked back and saw this man just walking around. Where was his car he had to move? We didn't see any car, nor was the tuk-tuk blocking any parking space. That was shady too, but we didn't realize or suspect all these people could be connected in a big scam. WRONG!
We got to the jewelry story and went inside. It was a non-descript cement storefront with no signage or anything to identify what it was. I suspected it was like that for security reasons, but in any case, it was air conditioned and we were dying of heat.
We were the only ones in the store besides about 10 salespeople... they didn't really hover over us or anything - probably because they realized we weren't going to spend $1000 or anything substantial. They offered us drinks and one man claimed to be from Washington DC -- citing a location of his Jewelry store at 16th and K -- something we'd recognize. I think he may have said he was on a buying trip or something, but I can't remember.
Luckily, because we had a flight to catch, we only had about 5 minutes to browse around the store. Jen didn't buy anything, but I saw a silver ring I liked. I know it cost no more than USD $15 so I figured why not... it fit, it looked good and I bought it. I used my credit card (which I'm about to go cancel right now) and the sale was completed. Nothing suspicious there.
The tuk-tuk driver took us back and 50 baht was all it cost but this adventure, plus the lost time of not getting to see the Grand Palace. But next time, next time I'll know truth about the Palace and the special jewelry sale... and march right into the Palace, leaving those idiot scam artists dripping with sweat from the 100-degree heat. Of course, if I see any tourists falling prey to this scam, I'll warn them and call those guys on this scam.
I've been prompted to write my story here after a co-worker just asked me if I bought jewelry in Thailand on my trip. Same thing happened to her, but no substantial money was involved.
My ring...? Well, I noticed there was no sterling silver stamp inside of it. I guess it's really not silver, but I figure it's still nice and no one needs to know it's not real.
One more thing... I'm a very experienced traveler, work for an airline and have traveled to at least 50 countries, but I still fell prey to this scam for a two reasons: (1) I didn't do much research before my trip, (2) I didn't leave these shady characters when things didn't add up (e.g. "Manager" of Palace).
Perhaps my story here might prevent an unknowing traveler from spending money on something that just isn't real.
Thanks to Yong:
The day was 21st Oct 2001. I reached Bangkok at or about 1100 hours, tired after 17 hours of train from Hatyai. As I was only transit in bangkok, planning to go to Chiangmai that day at 1455 hours, I did not go beyond 2 km of the railway station. As I was walking along the Chinatown, a Chinese-Thai approached me, he merely asked me what is the time. I told him and then he told me that I should visit some Wat, Export centre,etc. Furthermore, he added that Tuktuk is only 20Baht per hour, hence, being greedy, I took up the offer by boarding the tuk tuk that he has arranged for me. The first temple I met no one. It was at the second temple, a Thai approached me, show me about a Wat. He spoke Fluent English and say how much he earned from the Export Centre which opened only 7 days in a year. Well, I believe him but still has doublt. He left without telling me where is the export centre. In the temple itself, there are several other statue. Hence, while I was seeing another statue, I met another Thai with a Foreigner. This foreigner claim that he is from Belgium, maybe that is true. He tell me that he had did it 3 times on successfully bringing the Blue Sapphire back to Belgium and earned a profit, and each time he earned US10000. Well, Like most other, I went to the shop by the tuktuk and spent US2400. Though I do not have enough cash, these people are professional enough to bring me to the Linked Gold shop, I used my Card and paid for the Gems. Well, though I am being cheated, I still do not blame these people. Because, I was being greedy in the first place. Definitely, I will remember this for life. Now, at this time, I will wait for the Gem to be post to my house, and at the same time, will go to Bangkok to look for the shop again to see if I could get my money back. May God bless all of you and all the cheats.
Thanks to Jack:
Similar story to the rest, I don't consider myself gullible. People have tried and failed before to drag me into scams and I have walked away.
But the sophistication of this scheme lies in all the seemingly independent people who guide you to the goal of buying. I just didn't connect the fact that all these people were working together. Even worse, the initial contact was made by two (I still assume) independent people and they pointed out two different stores on my map. Thus when I went to the shop I thought that the fact that two people told this story about 195% tax and then pointed out different shops added veracity to the whole thing.
The second contact was made by a man claiming to work for the UN here in Bangkok.
The seller seemed very trustworthy and the whole scheme seemed so complicated and had so many forms that again, I thought this was adding authenticity to the whole thing. He also showed me the address of the dealer I could sell to for my great profit (423 George St, Sydney if I remember) and I got the impression that he would give me this information in the envelope with the receipt. I fully intended to ring the dealer immediately afterwards to confirm they exist, etc. I asked lots of questions, thought the answers were satisfactory and went ahead. They even said 'don't talk to the people in the hotel when you go to get your passport as they'll want a commission. In fact the people in the hotel would have told me it was a scam.
They paid for that taxi and sent an attractive girl with me (alarm bell) to assist in retrieving my passport and enough cash to pay (20% for cash - otherwise use a third part gold dealer to buy enough gold on Visa and pay with that - they normally only deal wholesale which is why they don't have Visa facilities themselves).
Other alarm bells did ring, but just not loudly enough. And finally, I (fortunately for me) have a bunch of cash lying in the bank. I won't go broke over this as so many backpackers would. So I thought I'd live by the rule "never bet more than you can afford to lose". Well, I'm pretty sure I lost it.
After the sale, the guy set me up with another (less attractive - I assume once the sale is over it matters less) girl to show me around the city for the rest of the day - take me to any temples, get a traditional Thai massage, eat a meal out together. All presumably to distract me from putting all the parts together and doing anything about it.
She was particularly keen to look after my books for me - especially my guide book. Guess why? Every guide book tells you about the scam. But when I was insistent about things she was always cooperative - nothing strange going on here - nothing wrong - you're suspicious? Is good for you.
And so I read the little section on the scam in the book. Immediately I felt my stomach sink. How was I going to fix this? But still I gave it a chance that this was still real and I could make some money. Everything after that kiboshed that idea.
Firstly I asked the girl if I could ring the dealer in Sydney - she had been very accommodating in letting me ring my bank to increase my withdrawal limit - I know it costs a bomb to ring Australia from a mobile but she didn't hesitate. Getting in contact with the Sydney dealer was next to impossible. First of all she got my salesman on the phone, but as soon as I said "I have a problem" he hung up - the girl said her battery must have died. So I called back on my mobile - he has just left. So I asked her why he would just leave when he knew I'd be calling back. So she rang again (on her suddenly working phone) and got him. I put it to him that I was worried this was a scam and would be reassured if I could ring the dealer in Sydney. "Yes, those details will be included in the package when it arrives". I said I'd prefer the number now. "No." Why not? "Because he is very busy man and would not have time." That's ridiculous, just give me the number and I'll discuss it with him. "No." Then he reverted to silence. He wouldn't talk to me but stayed on the line. The girl tried to talk to him but seemingly got no response either.
Obviously she acted like she was on my side and shared my concern, but reassured me it was all okay. Let's just go for our meal amd massage. I said I'd prefer to go back to the office. She said sure, after the meal and massage. But it would be closed, and the Sydney dealer would definitly be closed by then. I had to push the issue but convinced her to go back to the store right away. She was compliant in the "everything's cool" way. However I changed my mind and decided it would be better to call back to my hotel first (on the pretext that I wanted to drop back my passport - carrying it made me nervous). She agreed to this and suggested I then go to the dealer alone. No dice, I said (well, nothing that cool actually - unfortunately the Thai people wouldn't get the phrase "no dice"). So she agreed to wait outside.
When I went to the safety deposit box room, I asked the hotellier if I had gotten dragged into a scam. When he asked me the details he confirmed probably, yes. I asked if I should call the police or go to the shop. He said it would be worth calling to the shop first. I'm not sure this was such hot advice.
When I got back to the taxi I half-expected the girl to be gone - but she had left the taxi and was making a phone call somewhere according to the driver. I waited a while and decided this was a delaying tactic on her part. Eventually I got in and told the driver to just take me to the shop. At which point she suddenly appeared again, aggrieved that I was going to run off without her.
Needless to say the "assistant manager" at the shop was most unhelpful. They said everything was okay. Can I see the salesman - no he took his commission and went. Can I call the Sydney agent - no we don't know which one he works with. I said I remembered the address - no, we don't have the number. After batting around the issues with them (one of them was either pretending to be or actually was asleep), I realised they weren't going to admit anything was wrong. What if they're fake? They're not. And if they are? Send them back to us and we'll refund you. As if.
So I said: Listen, I know you're running some operation here and you have expenses, just pay me back all but say, 5,000 baht and I won't go to the police.
No.
This was my last gambit so I decided to go to the police. They didn't try to stop me or anything else, but they were two stringy young guys and I'm sure they could have beaten the shit out of me if they wanted. I didn't want to get too pushy.
The police offered me the following advice: 1. There's nothing actually illegal about overpricing goods. 2. There's nothing they can legally do about it. 3. It happens all the time.
And then they offered me (in summary) these options: 1. Get the stuff posted back from Sydney and return it in person and try to get a refund - probably 50-60% (not an option as I was leaving the following day) 2. Send the stuff back from Australia after getting it valued - good chance I'd get nothing as they're conveniently 'lose' the package. 3. Get them (the police) to get me a partial refund and do no more about it (unless the jewellery turned out to be fake rather than overvalued - in which case I would have a criminal case).
I decided option 3 was the only decent chance I'd have of getting any moey back. I got 20% of the price delivered in cash to the police station. The rest, I have to put down to experience - what I like to call a self-imposed stupidity tax. I'm only glad I can afford it. The way I see it, it's a week's salary and I deserve to pay it for being so dumb as to fall for this.
Thanks to Ichiro:
I never thought there would be any scams more elaborated than we see in a movie, but my experience in Thailand let me know I was wrong.
After visiting the Grand Palace, I and my wife decided to have a look to Wat Pho. When my wife was checking the map to see how to walk there, one guy kindly asked us if we need help, we knew we should be careful to strangers, so we said no. He asked where we are from, and kindly said we can stand in the shadow of the wall because it is very hot under the sun, and then walked away. Because he didn't try to persuade us to buy anything, I thought maybe Thai people are very friendly since they all have the belief of Buddha.
On the way to Wat Pho, a very well-dressed man asked us where we are going to. When we said Wat Pho, he said it is not open to foreigners till 1PM, and the Thai government open several other temples for free today, and government has some tuk-tuks with white number plate other than the yellow one in a very low fee for foreigners to visit these temples.He also mentioned if we like we can visit jewelry shop. He showed us these temples in our maps, and asked a tuk-tuk occasionally running in the road to stop, and asked the driver to give us a tour only with 20 Baht.Because we didn't have other plan, and the friendly man and the driver didn't seem to know each other, I didn't doubt what he said.
Though my wife doesn't like tuk-tuk, we still got on the tuk-tuk. The driver was trying to talk with me in his very bad english to say he is working for government. He acted so kindly, I really thought we met a very kind guy. I only felt a little bit strange to his bad driving manner as to he was like a so kind person. But this didn't stop me to believe him.
The driver firstly took us to a small and quiet temple not worth for foreigners to visit at all. Though I was very disppointed, I still thought I should just give a quick look. Inside the temple, a very thin guy invited us to sit before the buddha, and started to chat with us. He said he is a businnesman, and has travelled to a lot of countries.He said every year the government will have one week export promotion, foreingers are allowed to buy gems limit to 5 pieces without taxes in the export center. He said he did it every year to sell the gems in other countries to earn at least 100% profit. Because we really didn't want to waist too much time in this small temple, we finished the chat. Till now I was not interested to the gem story at all.
We went back to the tuk-tuk driver, he asked us to wait for a moment because he needed to go to toilet. There are one Thai and one white guy standing nearby seemed like waiting for somebody. Then the Thai guy asked if there is any problem with the tuk-tuk driver because they usually cannot speak good english, and he said he is an officer here.(I felt a little bit strange here because I don't think he needs to tell me he is an offccer.) Then he started to ask me where we are from, and the white guy said he is from Belgium. They again started to talk about the government promotion, the Belgian said He already did this to pay for his trip to Thailand several times, and the Thai huy even showed me his $6000 receipt he bought two days ago, and they said today is the last day. I confirmed the difference between white and yellow number plate tuk-tuk, they said just same thing as we were told at the beginning.
Just after we finished our talk, the driver came back. I felt a little bit stange why he went to toilet for so long time, but not strange enough to doubt the whole thing. The driver asked us if we like to go to the export center, we agreed. I told to my wife, if this is a scam, this network is too big, too elaborated, so it should not be a scam.
I thought it must be a good buiding with crowded people because this is a big chance to earn money. When we arrived to a very small shop with only "Export Center" on the glass door, I douted if I am right to come here. Inside the shop, there are a big photo of a man wearing like a king and a newpaper on the wall. I don't know the standard price for the gem, but the price listed there was really expensive, so we tried to see some cheaper thnigs.Again the salesperson said we can eaily sell it out if we buy the gem stones. While we were seeing the jewelry, a white guy came and bought a 5-piece box, and showed his passport. After he left, I saw there is a box with a name on it showing that it is already sold. The saleperson even showed us the whole receipt and EMS document of the whole customers (Later may wife said she felt it is strange they expose other customers' information to us). We spent much time there, wanted to make a decision to buy or not. Finally we thought we cannot buy a so expensive jewelry without even checking the price in other shops.
After leaving the "export center", it was already 1PM, according the first guy's saying, Wat Pho should be open. But the driver said Wat Pho is only open to Thai people in the afternoon, we didn't believe it and insisted the driver to send us back to Wat Pho. He said OK, but he needs to go to another shop to get free gas coupon. But after arrived to another jewelry shop, he asked us to stay there for 10 minutes. Now we knew he just wanted to take us to jewelry shops, so we paid him 20 Baht and took a taxi back to Wat Pho. When we bought the ticket for Wat Pho, we asked the ticket guy if it was closed this morning, and he said it was open from 8AM.
When we were walking around the Wat Pho, we thought through again the whole things happend in the morning, we suddenly realized the whole thing was a scam. We are so astonished there is so well elaborated scam exist in the real life. Just like a movie, this scam needs a well-written script, good directors and actors to make it like a real. My wife said sometimes the human being is the most scareful and dangerous thing in this world.
Thanks to Roger:
I got scammed in late July, 2002. Usual story of tuk-tuk drivers, a supposed tax lawyer (local guy who thought I was English, so said he lived in London), and a "Government Expo", allegedly advertised on Thai TV.
Back at Khao San Rd, I found out I'd been scammed (did a google search), and called the tourism police, who told me to go to the airport to intercept the courier (EMS is the carrier of choice for the scammers).
The actual mail center is a few miles from the international terminal (exiting the terminal you turn left, catch a cab, go past the domestic and cargo terminals, and turn left at a road with a gas station on the corner). The center is open even at night (I was initially worried 'cos the place was darkened). The mail guys found my package in about 20 seconds, and the next day I went back to the jewelry store and asked for a refund. After an hour or so of haggling I settled for just over 70% refund (they tried the ol' goodcop-bad cop routine, the "don't have cash on premises" routine, and "I'm not authorized to refund more than 50%" routine). Needless to say they were just bullshitting. I took my cash and left. My suggestion is to go with someone else whose role is just to wait in the showroom (it'll make them nervous), while you ask for a refund. A couple who did this got ~90% refund. It's funny that a scam/fiction based just on allegations can be done so effectively(like in the movies "The Sting", and "The Spanish Prisoner"). Politically, the scam relies on Thailand's lack of effective consumer protection/fair trading/trade practices laws.
Thanks to JW Kong from Singapore:
My purpose of contributing is not to illustrate my experience of gem scam. Since the tactics used by these conmen are rather similar, my purpose is to inform others that such scam still exist now. I don't know when did the above scams encountered by fellow travellers occurred, but I was in Bangkok on Nov 2002, and I did encountered the scam.
My secondary purpose is to tell how I "got off the hook". As usual, my girlfriend and I was approached outside Grand Palace. I think by now, you should know very well what was to follow. The usual tactics were used. The place indicated by the guy was called "Leela". And as usual, we were bought to this place after all the elaborated plots. I begin to feel fishy when I was at the second temple, with the "Thai government guy".
So when we reached the gem shop, I'm quite sure it must be a scam and decided not to buy no matter what. We indicated that we are students (thus have little money). We were lucky in this area as both of us looked rather young. We also indicated that we do not have any credit cards. We were again lucky as the salesperson didn't pressure us much into buying. We left the shop in less than 5 minutes.
My sincere apologies for those who have been scammed. To me, this is a good experience since I didn't lose much in the scam, and I get to experience such seamless scam, that have made Thailand so infamous. To me, it was part of my experience with the one of the "highlights" of Thailand.
Thanks to Edo, who lives in Bangkok:
Three days ago my mother came to Bangkok from Italy to visit me, and the following day I took her to visit Bangkok. She stayed in a hotel in Pratunam and just outide the hotel we took a Tuk-Tuk, and asked for Wat Phra Kaew. We were four people, me, my thai lady, my mother and her friend. The tuk-tuk said that we cannot go four people in one tuk-tuk as he feared police, and so he said to take another of the many tuk-tuks there were waiting there.
I stayed with my lady in the first tuk-tuk and my mother went in the new one. My lady asked the driver to speak with the other tuk-tuk in order to travel together to Wat Phra Kew and don't lose my mother somwhere.
The first driver spoke with the second driver, and he said to him that before he had to go to get 'Namman', fuel.
He spoke in Thai with my lady and told her that he has a free coupon for an Esso fuel station, and he showed a little paper with the Esso name on it on the top, the middle blank, and a serial number on the bottom.
He also explained the other tuk-tuk that before him had to go there, and so to follow him.
I asked what was happening, making as if I didn't speak thai, as I do indeed. The driver asked my lady if I speak Thai, and she said no, him asked if we spoke English and my lady said only me. So he said to me, showing a map that on the road to Wat Phra Kew there were "something", where he wanted to go for put a stamp on the coupon for free fuel, and he showed me again this ESSO coupon. He said only 1 minute, and on the road to Wat Phra Kew. He continued to show me this ticked everytime we stopped because of the traffic, and saying put stamp for free 'Namman', and he also said "my sponsor".
Free Namman, my sponsor. I said ok.
During the travel, remembering all the stories on your website I thought that maybe this was a scam, but I also thought that maybe I was paranoid and I should not buy anything anyway. I was only a little afraid as I remembered that I read on your website that these people had illegal connections.
We headed to Wat Phra Kaew, and as we stopped sometime to wait for the second tuk-tuk (the one that "didn't know the road") the driver also told my lady that she cannot come inside Wat Phra Kaew because her shirt didn't cover her shoulders. As I heard this I suspected more and I warned my lady that this could be a scam, and that maybe now they would take us to buy some face jewels.
Finally, riding on the cement 10 centimeters high, (I don't know how to call this, the thing that separates the two lanes in the road), making an U turn, we stopped in front of a shop, with a sign with "Jewel Factory" written on it. It was a big door on the first floor, and cannot look inside of the windows, or the glass door, as they were like mirror or black.
As I read this I understood everything.
The drivers now looked not like strangers between them, but as longtime friends, and other people came outside of the shop. I remember that there were no security outside, and a man with a blue tshirt and old pants came outside.
I said to my mother to go away, and wait for me. The men said come inside please, free, don't have to pay nothing, only look.
I spoke in Thai with the two drivers, I said to them that I cannot come inside, and paid the 200 bath they had asked before to go to Wat Phra Kew, I also took two 50 baht banknotes and said to them, this is your free coupon for your fuel, go and make it. I also said that I was sorry but I know about this story. So the third man that came out of the shop before, approached me and said that cannot make this, and showed me his finger making NO! He also said and me, you have to pay me. I said to him that it was better for everybody to forget about each other.
And I went away, I turned the corner and went on a taximeter, that with 40 baht and AIR conditioned, took me to Wat Phra Kew, that was really near, as the "Jewel Factory" should be really near.
In the taxi I explained to my mother about what happened to us. Luckily before they found me, I found your website, so I already knew about that story. It was expecially useful the section about the experiences of the other people, as I suspected a lot when they wanted to worry my lady and said here that she cannot inside Wat Phra Kaew, because she had not the proper dressing.
Please all tourist be aware, inside Wat Phra Kaew there is an office where you can borrow the proper dress for no money, only leave your ID card there, and take it back when the tour ends. Completely safe, as my lady tried that day.
Thanks to Anil of Suk11 guesthouse for permission to republish this story which happened to one of his guests:
I will write down my story once again for you to put it on the internet so that as many people as possible hopefully will be warned. It all started in front of the Grand Palace but probably that is not the only place where these professionally organized Mafia "actors" operate. I was about to walk to the direction of the Grand Palace when a guy introduced himself as a student and said that on Saturday afternoons the Palace was always closed due to a public blah blah blah (which is not true). Then Number 1 recommended me some other temples to go to and I jumped on a Tuk Tuk to get there. I met Number 2 meditating inside the small temple to which the Tuk Tuk driver took me. He looked like a truthful and honest Thai businessman in casual clothes and we started to have a chat. After asking me some questions about where I come from and so on he said that there was a special government promotion for jewellry -- this week only -- with Saturday being the last day. His country's economy wasn't going well and that's why they had this promotion week where you don't have to pay tax and therefore later on could make quite some money when selling the gems back in your home country.
I started to get interested and I started to ask questions. You have to know that all those people are very aware of all the doubts you can possibly have and they are extremely well trained to be looking and acting honestly and they will never put any kind of pressure on you. Basically, this guy just told me what HE was about to do with no proposals for what I should do. We had a vivid discussion and in the end I asked him for the address of a reliable place at which to buy things like that, which he gladly gave me. I passed that over to my driver (who was probably one of them, too, because otherwise he would have warned me).
Inside the shop there were about 5 people: The vendors as well as Actor No. 3 who was a European male claiming to be Swedish (which is probably true) and about to buy some sets of gems which he would later, as he did every year during the governmental promotion period, sell back in Sweden to finance his holidays in Thailand. I bought a set of gems for a LOT of money but I know now that there are even more people who have spent MUCH more money than I did on this. I spent around $2000 US which I don't even have on my credit card. You will get receipts for everything but they won't help you in the end because it is technically a legitimate business deal; the gems are just worth much less than they claim them to be worth and you will take a large loss when you try to sell them. After we had made the deal they got for me as their "new customer" a driver with a nice 4WD - a young Thai guy of my age who I just want to call "Number 4" now, who drove me around for all the rest of the day and took me to any place I wanted to go. He invited me for dinner in the evening where we met Number 5 who claimed to just have arrived from the other end of Thailand (Chiang Mai) and, of course, confirmed everything about the jewels once more. We had a beautiful day and night together, they paid everything for me and in the end Number 4 even gave me his favorite music cassette as a present.
I started to have doubts the next day when I heard a very similar story from Mark, who had stayed at Suk11 as well. The awakening came when I went to the Tourist Police where they have special "Jewellry Complaint Forms". I met about 6 other people there who had very similar stories to tell and I know now that there is a web of about 30 jewellry shops and god knows how many Number 1's 4's and 8's. I don't want to say anything about the tourist police that later I will regret so I'll just say this: Don't believe they will ever help you. In the end, with some help from suk11 I managed to get back 75% of my money. I had to postpone my flight to sort everything out here but by far most of the tourists are not that lucky. Once you have left the country, there's nothing you can do.These people are organized Mafia in my eyes but, as it always is with the Mafia: They will find a way to break the law without breaking it.
This is the story I have to tell and I hope for you that you will read it b e f o r e you take your first step into the money trap. But, of course: You are much smarter than me and this only happens to stupid people.... yes, maybe... and maybe not.
